Day 6 of our Avatar Customization Preview - Pirates!

Here is Day 6...pirates!

Full chat log with @jasonrohrer is posted now!

Cuppycake: Jason, thank you so much for joining us today!
jasonrohrer: Great to be here.
Cuppycake: And thanks everyone for coming! Today was have Jason Rohrer, an independent game designer who has spent many years being immersed in something we all love - games!
Cuppycake: Along with many software projects, Jason has created many games - which he releases for free on the web for anyone to download. (Other than his iPhone versions, which he charges a little for)
Cuppycake: His games are known for being artistic and thought-provoking, and range from puzzles to shooters.
Cuppycake: Without further ado, let's start chatting with Jason!
jasonrohrer: Okay
Cuppycake: Jason, can you start off by explaining to our audience what an "art game" actually is, for those who don't know?
jasonrohrer: Well, the best analogy is the "art film"
jasonrohrer: Not deconstructing the medium of film to make art
jasonrohrer: (like video art)
jasonrohrer: but actually using the medium of narrative, commercial film to do something artistic
jasonrohrer: So, you go to a movie theater and sit down with popcorn and actually watch a film
Sent to jasonrohrer:  Feel free to prompt for the next question when you're done answering the one I give you :)
jasonrohrer: You don't go to a gallery to see these things
jasonrohrer: So, artgames are like that...
jasonrohrer: real, playable games, but they also have an artistic purpose to them
Cuppycake: Neat :)
jasonrohrer, private:  done
Cuppycake: We've seen a lot of that here in Metaplace actually, people creating virtual world spaces as artistic representations.
Cuppycake: How did you get into creating games?
jasonrohrer: Like most ppl my age... (31)
jasonrohrer: I've been playing video games my whole life.
jasonrohrer: So I always dreamed about making one... I tried a few times throughout my life, but it was always too hard.
jasonrohrer: After I had been programming for about 8 years, I decided to try again
jasonrohrer: and I actually made a real, working game (Transcend)
jasonrohrer: So it took all these different programming skills that I had built up from other projects before I could pull it off.
Cuppycake: Great, so Jason - some people here may not be familar with your work.
Cuppycake: Can you give a quick overview on the six games you've made, and what platform they're for?
jasonrohrer: Six? you mean 13
jasonrohrer: :)
Cuppycake: Good point, I was going off the 6 on your bio page :)
Cuppycake: Alright, you don't have to talk about ALL 13 ;)
jasonrohrer: Oh, yeah, but then I made 7 more for the Escapist
jasonrohrer: Anyway, those Escapist games are Windows-only...
Cuppycake: Just give them an idea of some themes that you represent with your games, that kind of thing :)
jasonrohrer: because I made them with GameMaker
jasonrohrer: But the rest run on Mac/PC/Linux... and I ported 2 for the iPhone as well
jasonrohrer: Well, my most well know game, Passage, is about the passage of life.
jasonrohrer: I also made a game about police brutality and how to overcome it
jasonrohrer: I made a game about the following question: "If you could be immortal, would you?"
Cuppycake: Very neat
jasonrohrer: I made a game about my relationship with my 5-y-old kid... and another game about the gulf between two people
Cuppycake: We have a question from Chooseareality
chooseareality: so those programming skills, were they from the business world?
jasonrohrer: No... mostly from my research work in academia (working on a PhD in computer science) and then later indie work on Peer-to-peer stuff
Cuppycake: About that
Cuppycake: You wrote one of the first peer to peer file transfer pieces of software, so you obviously feel strongly about people on the web sharing information with each other. Does this translate into your games at all?
jasonrohrer: Well, that spirit carries over in the way that I distribute my games, certainly
jasonrohrer: (placing them in the public domain, releasing the source code)
jasonrohrer: You know, you can't really stop people from copying information that you release
jasonrohrer: You can try, but they will always find a way around whatever you try!
Cuppycake: haha
jasonrohrer: So, it's just easier not to try...
chooseareality: So people are free to take your code and do what they want with it? What kind of license do you have on the code?
jasonrohrer: I used to use the Free Software Foundation's GPL...
jasonrohrer: but I found that to be too restrictive
jasonrohrer: Now I release everything into the public domain, which essentially means "no copyright"
jasonrohrer: no restrictions on use
Bigrebo: Do you ever make paper prototypes of your games? How do they begin life?
jasonrohrer: funny you should ask
jasonrohrer: I haven't made such prototypes for any of my past games...
jasonrohrer: because most of them were realtime games
jasonrohrer: but my current game is turn-based, and I've been doing a lot of paper prototyping for that...
jasonrohrer: I was playing it with my wife last night, in fact
jasonrohrer: How can I show an image here?
Cuppycake: You can link the URL in chat
jasonrohrer: slideshow?
Cuppycake: The slideshow is a little more complicated :)
jasonrohrer: okay, URL will have to do :)
jasonrohrer: http://tigsource.com/articles/2009/08/11/jason-rohrers-new-ds-game
jasonrohrer: chickpeas and pennies, baby!
jasonrohrer: (and those are DRIED chickpeas, by the way, so it's not as gross as it sounds... I guess some people only have seen them on salad bars)
Cuppycake: hahaha
Bigrebo: Has it changed your perceptions on development at all? I am working on a paper prototype myself at the moment.
jasonrohrer: Well... it really is appropriate---and maybe necessary?---for this type of game
jasonrohrer: You can write ideas down on paper, but you can't tell how they will work until you play (or prove stuff using game theory)
jasonrohrer: With my other games (one player, realtime), paper prototyping wouldn't make sense.
jasonrohrer: Oh... I did do some prototyping for Primrose, but that was a turn-based tile-placement game (Tetris family)
jasonrohrer: But for most of my other games...
jasonrohrer: I write the entire design down on paper ahead of time, an then I usually just code it up without any major changes.
jasonrohrer: When you're crafting a single-player experience, it's easier to visualize the whole thing in your head
Cuppycake: How do you get the inspiration for creating games? Where does it come from?
jasonrohrer: I look around my life for issues that are interesting or concerning to me
jasonrohrer: For a while, I was always keeping an eye open for complex emotional stuff in my life
jasonrohrer: but these days, I'm thinking more about interesting philosophical ideas...
Cuppycake: Do you have an example?
jasonrohrer: like, "Can we ever truly understand each other, even if we speak the same language?" That was the motivation behind Between
jasonrohrer: Inspired by Quine's work on so-called "Radical Translation"
Cuppycake: Did Between show you the answer to that? ;)
jasonrohrer: Well, I'm not looking for answers
jasonrohrer: I'm trying to make games that explore these interesting questions.
jasonrohrer: Now I'm thinking about how we know what we know about what other people know (and what they know about us and what we know)
jasonrohrer: E.g., the classic philosophy puzzle of the "cheating wives" or "muddy children"
jasonrohrer: Pretty interesting stuff that will make your head hurt if you think about it too much.
Cuppycake: That's interesting, most other designers we've had chat with us are mostly about creating entertaining experiences.
jasonrohrer: My new DS game is about those issues.
jasonrohrer: Well, I think it will be entertaining... but in a different way.
jasonrohrer: Wasn't the movie Memento entertaining?
jasonrohrer: Yet it kinda makes your head hurt! :)
Cuppycake: Definitely, it's a neat way of looking at games.
Cuppycake: Do you want to talk a bit about what you're working on right now?
Cuppycake: Tell us EVERYTHING. ;)
jasonrohrer: I just did, didn't I?
jasonrohrer: Well, I told you more than other people know so far.
Cuppycake: I suppose we'll be satisfied with that, then.
Cuppycake: We have a question about your new game :)
DBullardBates: Does making a DS game about a controversial subject like conflict diamonds make you nervous, in terms of sales and reception? (Very excited for that by the way.)
jasonrohrer: What has been released so far is this:
jasonrohrer: a turn-based, two-player strategy game for the Nintendo DS “about diamond trading in Angola on the eve of the passage of the Kimberly Process.”
jasonrohrer: okay, yeah, so you know that part already.
jasonrohrer: Yeah, it is a bit strange to make a DS game like that... but I think the DS audience is growing up a bit.
jasonrohrer: Also, I anticipate that the game will get an E rating... so it's not going to be filled with little kids carrying AKs or anything
jasonrohrer: But the backdrop is a little.... disturbing. Other than that, you might not realize that the game is controversial if you just sit down and play it.
jasonrohrer: Diamonds are good, right? Everyone wants em! Get as many as you can!
Cuppycake: Like people not realizing what "Puff the Magic Dragon" is about... ;)
jasonrohrer: (urban legend)... I guess it's a bit like Defcon
jasonrohrer: which was a strategy game *about* nuclear war.
jasonrohrer: So it gives you a bit of a creepy feeling when you play, but that doesn't stop you from getting into the strategy, which makes it even creepier
jasonrohrer: ANYWAY, the art in my game is not some ham-handed preaching about blood diamonds... it's in the exploration of the "know that you know that he knows that you know" stuff that I mentioned before
jasonrohrer: The diamond trade just happens to be a perfect setting for that exploration
Cuppycake: Haha
jasonrohrer: I mean, who can you trust... around Diamonds?
jasonrohrer: Especially in a place like Angola
jasonrohrer: So those diamond smugglers... man... they've got to be looking over their shoulders a lot
jasonrohrer: But as for the DS audience
jasonrohrer: What about Chinatown Wars?
Cuppycake: That's a real game?
jasonrohrer: There are more and more M-rated games (it's a GTA franchise game for the DS)
jasonrohrer: when a few years ago, there were no M-rated games.
jasonrohrer: So if the DS is ready for "mature" stuff like blood and boobs... well... maybe it's ready for intellectually mature stuff too!
jasonrohrer: That's the hope.
jasonrohrer: Anyway, it's also a matter of scope and scale.
jasonrohrer: On the DS, I can make an entire game by myself (small screen, low-res graphics) in 6 months or so.
jasonrohrer: I couldn't possible do that on an HD system like the XB360... too may pixels to paint.
Cuppycake: There have to be other unique challenges to making a DS game rather than PC, right? Distribution and all that?
jasonrohrer: So it's within reach... and I'm taking this platform and making the game that I want to make.
jasonrohrer: Yeah, well, it all started when a publisher approached me
jasonrohrer: I would have never gotten into it without that.
jasonrohrer: Later on, I learned that you can't get a DS dev kit without renting an office space... so I'm doing that now
jasonrohrer: I've been working from home for 6 years, so having an office is a big change
Cuppycake: I bet!
jasonrohrer: And... I can't say too much about the DS platform (secret), but, it's weird!
jasonrohrer: An embedded system, with all the stuff that goes along with that.
jasonrohrer: Even the iPhone acts mostly like a "real computer" by comparison
jasonrohrer: All the "standard" stuff, even
jasonrohrer: "printf" is not there...
jasonrohrer: I've never seen a platform that didn't have "printf"!
skateborden: You've mentioned that this will be your first boxed retail game, I'm curious why you didn't try to make it a downloadable game on DSIWare?
jasonrohrer: Yeah, that is a little weird, isn't it?
jasonrohrer: If I was making DSIWare, I wouldn't need a publisher.
jasonrohrer: So, it's because the whole thing started with a publisher that it's going the cart route
jasonrohrer: I may make a DSIWare game too at some point, though.
chooseareality: was it hard to get the idea for this game to be ok with the publishers?
jasonrohrer: Yes it was! In fact, they "red lighted" my first idea (about cheating spouses on the verge of divorce) because they thought it would be too controversial.
jasonrohrer: (on the DS, at least)
jasonrohrer: So I came up with another idea that explored the same philosophical issues of knowlege chains, and surprisingly, they green-lighted that
jasonrohrer: No sex, I guess...
DBullardBates: Can you tell us a little bit about the publisher (Majesco, right?) approaching you? How did that happen, what was you immediate response?
jasonrohrer: I think it happened after I released Primrose on the iPhone... they were on the verge of releasing their first iPhone game (KarmaStar)
jasonrohrer: One of their producers contacted me by email saying that they had played a lot of my games and would like to make a game with me in the future.
jasonrohrer: We had a phone call, and then a bigger meeting in person at GDC
jasonrohrer: After that, it was up to me to submit ideas to them.
jasonrohrer: But the DSi was the target platform all along
jasonrohrer: Even they thought the iPhone was too much of a crap-shoot!
Cuppycake: Do you want to talk a little bit about your experience developing for the iPhone? I know there is at least one person here who has considered going for it.
jasonrohrer: Yeah... well, it's not as secret as the DS, so I can say more about it!
jasonrohrer: First of all, it's much easier to get started... no expensive dev kit, no office, etc.
Cuppycake: Great :)
jasonrohrer: Just $100 membership fee, and that's it.
jasonrohrer: Of course, if you want to test your game in your hand, you need an iPhone too... but I think those have dropped to $99 now
jasonrohrer: And you also need a mac capable of running the dev stuff... I bought a used intel mac mini on Craig's list for $250
jasonrohrer: Programming for the iPhone is pretty easy... assuming that you figure out how to work around all the crap that Apple encourages you to learn/use
jasonrohrer: I.e., ObjectiveC only runs on one platform (Apple's platform), so there's no sense in learning it.
jasonrohrer: Only a tiny piece of Primrose is iPhone-specific... the rest of the code is platform-independent C++ and OpenGL.
jasonrohrer: Okay, enough tech details.
jasonrohrer: Now money details!
jasonrohrer: Releasing your game is easy too... apple approves everything.
jasonrohrer: But that means that there are something like 50-100 new apps released each day
Cuppycake: Small fish in a big pond, basically?
jasonrohrer: It's pretty much impossible to sell a lot of copies, even if you make a good game.
jasonrohrer: The people who have made money have just been "lucky", as far as I can tell.
jasonrohrer: On the other hand, I have brought in several thousand dollars so far, so it wasn't a complete waste of time.
Cuppycake: Very cool :)
jasonrohrer: There is also a long tail (a few sales a day for months and months), so that's nice
chooseareality: Do you think the iPhone market will settle down and stablize soon
jasonrohrer: But that is with a TON of press for my iPhone games... execellent reviews on all the major review sites
jasonrohrer: A game with less exposure... man... you won't sell a single copy.
jasonrohrer: Will it settle down?
jasonrohrer: No! It's the wild west!
jasonrohrer: It will just get bigger and bigger... it's interesting in a way, because there is no filter
jasonrohrer: People complain about how much publisher have power over the content that we see
jasonrohrer: Well, here's what the world is like w/out publishers!
jasonrohrer: Compare it to DSiWare
jasonrohrer: There are 30 games released there...
jasonrohrer: TOTAL
jasonrohrer: That's because the barrier to entry is steeper, and also because Nintendo is a bit more selective.
jasonrohrer: But we normally think about barriers to entry as a BAD thing, right?
jasonrohrer: Still, if you make a DSiWare game, even a mediocre one, you will bring in a lot of money for yourself
Cuppycake: Well, we're just about out of time
Cuppycake: But I have one more question for you
jasonrohrer: okay!
Cuppycake: I was hoping that you could give some advice to anyone here who is interested in getting started making games. What advice do you have?
jasonrohrer: Two words: Game Maker
jasonrohrer: Get Windows, get Game Maker ($20), and start making games.
jasonrohrer: It's an amazing tool... I've been calling it "the photoshop for games"... it's really that powerful
Cuppycake: Is it limited on what kind of game you can make?
Cuppycake: And it's all singleplayer, right?
jasonrohrer: No... you can pretty much make anything... multiplayer too
jasonrohrer: 3D might be more of a challenge, though some people have done it.
jasonrohrer: But the core of game design has nothing to do with 3D, so it's just a distraction anyway.
jasonrohrer: So, learn how to make games with Game Maker.
jasonrohrer: Before you know it, you'll know how to program, too... and then you can start learning to make games on other platforms
Cuppycake: Great :)
jasonrohrer: So, that's my advice! Make games. Start today.
Cuppycake: I'm going to take off the moderation now, so while Jason is done here - feel free to chat him up until he can't stand it anymore ;)
Chat moderation has been turned off in this area. Everyone may now chat normally.
chooseareality: thanks so much for coming
chooseareality: :)
Cuppycake: Thank you very much Jason for taking the time to talk to us :)

Day 5 of our Avatar Customization Preview: Hats!

Here is day 5, hats!

 

Day 4 of our Avatar Customization Preview: Costumes!

Princess, Robot, and Cowboy!

 

Day 3 of our Avatar Customization Preview...Masks!!

Here is day 3, and it's a good one!  Masks for your avatar to wear!

Let us know what you think!

Day 2 of our Avatar Customization Preview: Hairstyles!

Here is day 2 of our Avatar Customization Sneak Preview!  Hairstyles!

Day 1 of our new Avatar Customization Sneak Peek is up now!

As many of you are aware, we've been working hard on upgrading our avatar system.  We are debuting all sorts of new customizations and interfaces and a new shopping experience - and we think you all will love it! 

Today starts Day 1 of our Avatar Sneak Peek Preview.  Each business day we'll be posting up the next sneak peek with a different theme.

The first Sneak Peek is.....

Beards and Glasses!

Check out the preview below, and if you want to receive an email each time a new preview goes up, sign up here.

What do you think so far? :)  Let us know on Twitter (@metaplace) or in our forums!

Metaplace Featured Creator - Sarvana (read the interview!)

This month’s featured creator is Sarvana, who joined Metaplace in April 2009. She is a project manager for a nonprofit AIDS service organization in Maryland who loves nature, books, reading, photography, and visiting Metaplace and other virtual worlds in her free time.
 
What brought you to Metaplace?

It’s quite simple… an invitation. In early April 2009, I was exploring various virtual worlds … looking for one to call “home”. One day I discovered a Metaplace Beta Invitation and I don’t even remember if it was via a website or an email. The existence of a “web-based” virtual world stopped my “virtual world” search at that moment and I responded immediately expressing my interest to be a “beta tester”. Every day, I checked my email box for a reply and hoping that it was not a hoax. Well, when my “Beta Tester” acceptance letter appeared in my mailbox from Metaplace, I was like a child on Christmas morning. The excitement of discovering and building in a web-based platform was so exciting!! This was the type of virtual world that I could incorporated into my special projects and outreach work. I started telling friends about Metaplace before my first world was built (ask DumoS51). Metaplace was like the “diamond ring” that you look for while beachcombing but don’t expect to find it. Well, I found what I was looking for at Metaplace. Believe me when I say that I have enjoyed “cutting, polishing, and reshaping” my virtual “jewels”… my Metaplace Worlds.
 
What do you usually do when you're online here?
When I am on Metaplace and not building (or renovating), I am usually visiting other MP worlds, chatting with new and old friends, playing games, browsing Marketplace for objects, reading the forum threads, studying MP wiki’s’ tutorials/help portal, attending the Metaplace events (especially MP Masters classes, dancing (“I can dance”  on MP), exercising while collecting medallions in MPCentral, and hanging out with friends in MPCentral.
 
Where do you find the inspiration for your worlds?
About ninety-nine percent of the time, I get the inspiration for my worlds from my real life, my likes and dislikes, personal/professional experiences, community work, job activities, and personal/professional “dreams”. About one percent of the time, my worlds evolve from “free thought” means unrelated theme and/or layout, the idea just floated in my mind, I built what I saw mentally. For example, the inspiration for my worlds:
 
Sarvana’s World - Home: Memories of numerous cookouts and backyard entertaining on my parent’s farm are reflected here.
 
Sarvana’s World - Resource/Training Center:  As an independent consultant and instructor, I provide special interest information, resources, and training to professionals and community groups. The desire to share information in MP lead to the construction of this world.
 
Ms BugLady’s Lab: This world was inspired by the fact that I am an ASCP-certified medical technologist specializing in laboratory methods in the diagnosis of STDs/STIs. In my “real life” lab, my nickname is “Ms. BugLady”.
 
Bookhomie’s Hideaway (Sarvana’s Hideaway): I am a booklover, book collector, bookseller, and webmaster for a book-related website. Thus, I built this world and I will to be connecting it to other book-related worlds on Metaplace..
 
The Quiet Place: I am a “country girl” who enjoys spending time in unpopulated outdoor areas. It was relaxing to build this world featuring outdoors activities such as camping, field games, swimming, and hiking.
 
Zipporah’s Coffeehouse: As a Christian single, I have always enjoyed visiting local Christian coffeehouses. So, I wanted to build a Christian and inspirational gathering place for anyone who desires to visit for reflection, prayer, and fellowship. It I linked to a friend’s “Chapel” world.
 
Dorcas’ World: Since, I work and volunteer for various non-profit organizations in my local communities,I built this world to spread the word about the organizations’ efforts and their need for suppor (and funding).
 
Sarvana’s Shopper: This world was inspired by my interest in ecommerce, affiliate marketing, internet marketing, and other marketing ventures. I sell and buy on eBay and other web-based storefronts. (Linked my Amazon Astore here)
 
The Exam Room: Again, my work as the Project Manager for a local AIDS service organization inspired this world featuring HIV/AIDS information, resources, and a HIV/AIDS knowledge quiz (Not public yet… I am currently working on this “pilot” world. I hope to get future expansion and development of this “pilot” world funded via independent contracts, grant, and/or other available funding venues.
 
Paradise Delight: This is my “dream” vacation spot including lodge, available amenities and interactive events that I and friends may plan. Oh, yes…  I have “big plans” for this world (smiles). 

What is your creative process for building?
My creative process for building?  First, I create a visual layout reflecting my ideas (goals/objectives) for the world (sometimes on paper and sometimes it all in my head)… 2nd Make a list of objects that I want to use… 3rd Search Marketplace and other sites on the Free Stuff” list in MP Wiki (under Help) 4th Start building 5th Much finetuning 6th

Do you have any tips for people new to Metaplace?
 
Yes, I would tell the new people to…
 
1. Remember that everyone in Metaplace was “new” once. Everyone is a member of this growing virtual community therefore, “Welcome to the Metaplace Community!”.
2. Don’t waste time being “newbie” shy, you have “worlds to build, people to meet, and worlds to visit”.
3. Get out and meet your MP neighbors. Greeting each other in passing ( a simple “Hi” works well). I have met some great folks here and good friendship that started with a “Hi”!
4. Last but not least… Leave the rude and crude behavior (acts and words) in the real world; don’t bring it to our virtual world. Plus be sure to read the Terms of Service and Codes of Behavior. The TOS/COB were very helpful on what is or is not allowed.

What do you do when you're not on Metaplace?

When I am not on Metaplace, I am usually exploring other virtual worlds (Second Life, Reaction Grid, Yoville, and Smallworlds), tweeting onTwitter, updating my Facebook status, checking to see when Du is going on Metaplace (smiles), or working as the Project Manager for a nonprofit AIDS service organization in Maryland (USA).

What is your favorite creation right now?

Oh, that’s hard. Right now, Paradise Delight created for the Metaplace’s Duality Duos Contest is my favorite creation. The first reason is that it’s construction allowed me to collaborate with one of my best “real world” and “virtual world” friends, DumboS51 (aka Du). Second, I could build my “dream” vacation spot… indeed my “Paradise Delight”…including crab feast, relaxing, swimming, music, dancing, outdoors activities (a favorite theme).

Are you working on any new worlds you want to discuss?

Just got an idea for another world about my favorite pastime… photographing nature. It will be an inspirational world… so stay tuned!

What is your favorite world made by another user?

Oh, you’re going to get me in trouble with my MP pals and friends. I have tagged several worlds as my “Favorites” for different reasons but mainly for the awesome ideas and/or layout by the builders. So, I ask you to check my “Favorites”.  If I had to pick one, it would be any book-related world such as “The Library of Metaplace”. Because I am totally into books… collecting, reading, selling, and writing (future project).

What kinds of worlds and content do you hope to see in the future?

I would like the opportunity to list keywords related to our worlds as part of its profile. Then community members could search by keyword to locate special-interest themed worlds among the thousands in the growing community.

Do you want to share any other thoughts with the rest of Metaplace?

Yes! Although I explore, work, network, and/or reside in other virtual worlds, Metaplace is my primary virtual residence. I have “put down roots” in Metaplace.

Why? First, the presence of Metaplace’s  president (Raph Koster) actively involved in this virtual community had a major impact on me. For me, it meant that Metaplace is not just “business” for him but he is committed to the concept of virtual communities and will “roll up his sleeves” (even play the guitar). I applaud his leadership, vision, and passion. My Metaplace friends and contacts have made it feel like a “community” not just a virtual site. These folks are so willing to share information, assist with problems, encourage others, troubleshoot for others, and socialize here (and as a Metaplace” group in other venues).

So to the growing list of my Metaplace friends and contacts  that I have met on Metaplace, I can only say… “Thank you for being my friend! You are a-w-e-s-o-m-e!”  A huge “Thank you” goes to the super MP staff and other beta testers.

To you, thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts, worlds, and experiences on Metaplace! Happy Meeping!

 

Here is the full chatlog from today's chat with @slhamlet from New World Notes!

Sunchaser: OK - everyone, I'd like to introduce Wagner James Au, noted author of New World Notes, and a long time friend
Hamlet_Au: :)
Sunchaser: I first met James when he was visiting Linden Lab to see what this virtual world thing was all about
Sunchaser: Ultimately he became Second Life's first 'embedded journalist' and has covered the growth and changes in SL for something like 6 years now
Sunchaser: James also writes for GigaOm on gaming and tech issues, and is the author of a book about Second Life.
Sunchaser: He's here today to talk about what he's learned from watching how people interact in Second Life
Sunchaser: I'll kick things off, and then I'd like to get the audience involved as we go. So please do ask questions and we'll get to them shortly.
Cuppycake: (ask questions with /q!)
Hamlet_Au: Thanks for coming all!
Sunchaser: So James, maybe you could start off by telling us what has been the most exciting change you've seen in the past few years as virtual worlds become better understood
Hamlet_Au: Thanks for having me Robin!
Hamlet_Au: Lots of exciting stuff but really the most exciting thing is watching it grow and evolve...
Hamlet_Au: To the point, as I just reported on my blog, <plug>nwn.blogs.com</unplug> where 13% of the US population is an active member of one.
Sunchaser: James' Internet connection failed
Hamlet_Au: Not Metaplace, my wireless is acting funky.
Sunchaser: :)
Hamlet_Au: Anyway, so we're talking 1 in 7 people.
Hamlet_Au: Anyway, so we're talking 1 in 7 people.
Hamlet_Au: Anyway, so we're talking 1 in 7 people.
Hamlet_Au: IF I MAY REPEAT MYSELF!
CmdrYoung: would say that with the world wide success of the the second life interactions that it has opened the market up to wanna bes?
Sunchaser: Does that include all types of virtual worlds? Habbo? the Kids's worlds?
Hamlet_Au: Yeah, the largest are the kids' MMOs on the web, mostly, though Free Realms is going strong without being web-based.
Sunchaser: Do oyou want to get CmdrYoung's question?
Hamlet_Au: The largest is probably Maple Story, from Korea, but with a strong global population.
Hamlet_Au: I think his questions disappeared from queue, please repeat?
Sunchaser: He asked woould you say that with the world wide success of the second life interactions that it has opened hte market up to wanna bes?
Hamlet_Au: Well Second Life definitely gets the most coverage...
Hamlet_Au: Even though it's really atypical of most virtual worlds and not the largest one by any stretch. However I think it's the most conceptually easy to understand *as* a world....
Hamlet_Au: All those pretty 3D graphics and dancing and immersive landscapes etc.
Sunchaser: and very malleable avatars for identity creation
Sunchaser: we have more audience questions --let's take a few of those
Hamlet_Au: Even more than that I think is the kids' worlds, which are so huge, now so many parents are aware of them because their children are all up in them.
Relay: Why is MP better than SL? (I can give 3 answers to start but want to hear response so please do edit if you can)
Hamlet_Au: Heh, why is Metaplace better than Second Life... I'd say both are so very different that the comparisons don't scan all that much, there's room for both, and a lot of SLers are going into Metaplace without abandoning SL.
Hamlet_Au: If I see a really rich and powerful ecosystem of user-generated content where we get big success stories, then I think the comparison will start getting more interesting.
Sunchaser: For me the biggest difference is how web integrated it is
Hamlet_Au: Yes definitely, Raph went big on the web, that's a smart choice.
Sunchaser: ok - going to the next audience question
Hamlet_Au: In the beginning, Philip Rosedale had a vision of SL *swallowing* the web.
Sunchaser: well I think he was saying that the web and SL would find each other, so to speak
Sunchaser: that people would appreciate the advantages of 3D and migrate in that direction
Hamlet_Au: The heavy coverage of Second Life really started when I was at Linden Lab, and again, I think it's because SL is much easier to conceptually grok as a world. It looks more like one than say Habbo or Club Penguin which are larger, but not 3D, not immersive, and mainly kid-oriented.
Sunchaser: Pixeleen asked why you think SL gets so much coverage
Sunchaser: I think it also has to do with the novelty of it, and the idea of making real $ in a virtual space
Hamlet_Au: Also the kid worlds don't evoke the same wide berth of questions and controversies and stories; not to discount them at all, but because they're only user-generated to a certain degree, the narrative is shaped by the company. That's less interesting to the media.
Sunchaser: For sure!
Hamlet_Au: I agree, Robin, the REAL big media explosion was around, "HEY YOU CAN MAKE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOOK AT THIS ANSHE CHUNG LADY OMFG!"
Hamlet_Au: Money talks as they say.
Sunchaser: hahah no kidding. Nothing like a cover story on Business Week!
Sunchaser: ok let's take some more audience questions...
Hamlet_Au: Which was also the curse of the big hype wave too, that's why a lot of the early companies got into it, not as interested in the community.
Hamlet_Au: So about Lively...
Cuppycake: "what effect u say shutting down google lively had for VWs, if any ?"
Hamlet_Au: I think Google didn't push it that much, and they have so many products they throw at the wall, that Lively getting closed down didn't slow the momentum much. It was actually a knock on *Google* that they couldn't compete with Gaia Online and the other biggies.
Sunchaser: aside to the audience: if you ask your question in the "this world" tab it will show up in the chat
Sunchaser: otherwise it's going to the back channel
Sunchaser: Do you think it had anything to do with the problems they faced around moderation?
Sunchaser: They're not used to having to do much user moderation outside of YouTube, which seems somewhat siloed off
Hamlet_Au: That wasn't my sense, though I may be wrong, it just seemed like they didn't foster enough user-generated content in LIvely so it was folks just standing around twiddling they thumbs.
Hamlet_Au: It was very much a half-done project without much personality and no visionary wild man like Philip with the big pronouncements and the COME BUILD A NEW COUNTRY WITH ME patter.
Sunchaser: :)
Hamlet_Au: Fortunately for Metaplace, Raph is a visionary wild man too. I learned a lot from him.
Sunchaser: For sure. And I think he has some great ideas about how worlds can be used to support and extend web-based projects. ok let's get another audience question
Cuppycake: Asks Relay - "what is gonna be the next "game" killer app - I dont expect you to answer but give us a hint"
Hamlet_Au: Well in my opinion the killer app is already out there, the iPhone. Well, definitely one of them. The amount of development around it is crazy, we're talking literally hundreds of games going up in the Store every day, and a lot of visionary ones.
Sunchaser: Do you see similar application for game dev in Metaplace?
Hamlet_Au: I just wrote about one called Booyah, what I call "World of Lifecraft" because your whole real life is given a leveling system.
Sunchaser: how so?
Hamlet_Au: Robin with Metaplace, yeah, I can see that becoming big... we've already seen that with Flash games, it's a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE sector of the industry.
Hamlet_Au: So Flash games plus virtual community has got to get back. Kongregate is doing really well with that, though the games are fairly light and they don't have an MMO framework to sort of galvanize the community.
Hamlet_Au: "has got to get big" I mean.
Hamlet_Au: Moar questions plz!
Sunchaser: Given that Metaplace isn't an MMO in the usual sense of the world, are you really saying that it's the community that makes a difference, or is it a specific type of game play?
Hamlet_Au: Yeah, I think the community and the sense of wanting to contribute to it and be well-regarded in it is a big motivator.
Hamlet_Au: Wow people keep throwing me meeps like tips, should I start a strip tease?!
Hamlet_Au: Next question!
Sunchaser: hahah that would be fun
Sunchaser: better meeps than tomatoes
Hamlet_Au: !!
freecoconuts: what u think of SLs move to be marketed as a virtual conferenceing tool?
Hamlet_Au: I think Second Life can become a very powerful conferencing tool, but right now I think it'll mainly be used by the existing community, businesses won't adopt it IMO until SL itself gets bigger.
Hamlet_Au: Is there a way to see chat history btw?
Cuppycake: I'm saving the chat :) But /history works too
Hamlet_Au: T
Sunchaser: you can expand your chat window by clicking on the square with the arrow on the left side of the window
Sunchaser: ok next up Pixellen
Cuppycake: what differences do you see in SL and MP governance?
Hamlet_Au: Well I can only speak to the rules, ie the Terms of Service and Community Standards... Pix, I assume you're the Herald Pix, so I know you pointed out the big disparities in the two, SL has rules that are very long and legalistic, Metaplace has a succinct plain language version.
Hamlet_Au: But give Metaplace 6 years of growth and controversy, I think you'll see them resembling each other. :)
Sunchaser: There's another intersting difference, which is that MP lists the responsibilities of both world owners and world users
Hamlet_Au: Yes, that's a good move.
Sunchaser: I think so.
Hamlet_Au: Almost as if SL was all private islands, which would be way less headache for Linden.
Sunchaser: I wonder though if MP will be able to push responsibility to the world owners any more than SL has been able to
Hamlet_Au: Though at the same time (and I told Raph this), without a cohesive unified world where all kinds of unexpected encounters happen will probably be a barrier to growth and community.
Hamlet_Au: Well in your experience at Linden, Robin, did you guys have more community issues with private islands or on the mainland?
Sunchaser: I would say that if you're talking about abuse reports, it was a mixed bag
Sunchaser: It's only fairly recently that abuse reports can be sent to the estate manager
Sunchaser: and I don't have visibility into how that's working
Hamlet_Au: Interesting. I wrote about one story in my book about a private island that kept getting griefed so much, a bunch of Green Lantern superhero roleplayers started protecting it.
Sunchaser: many estate owners didn't want that responsibility
Sunchaser: haha I remember that!
Hamlet_Au: :)
Sunchaser: And of course there's also the copyright issues, which are not limited to the mainland by any means
Hamlet_Au: Yeah copyright will be an ever recurring problem. But then, it is in the real world too.
Sunchaser: looks like the audience wants to get back to some questions about gaming.
Hamlet_Au: Sure!
Hamlet_Au: Good question!
Hamlet_Au: There was a social leveling system of sorts, where you would rate people's behavior and appearance etc. in SL.
Cuppycake: "Do you think SL could benefit from a social leveling system like MP has?"
Hamlet_Au: That led to HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE cat fights and battles, because you could negative rate people. Or have big pro-rate orgies which sorta made the whole thing pointless.
Sunchaser: it certainly never accomplished what it was supposed to
Sunchaser: Which Randy Farmer is always happy to point out! :)
Hamlet_Au: I do think a leveling system that was automatic and integrated into the database would be powerful. Even just some subtle ones like badges for how much time you were in, places you went, etc.
Hamlet_Au: The lack of those badges and awards has hurt SL's growth rate in my opinion.
Sunchaser: A couple more game questions and then let's switch to the future
Hamlet_Au: Sure!
Sunchaser: oh wait - I want to hear more about that
Hamlet_Au: OK!
Sunchaser: Why do you think that lack has hurt SL's growth?
Hamlet_Au: Because there's no recognition and incentive for staying in-world other than the social networks you form in there and content creation, which many people can't do well.
Hamlet_Au: You don't need big invasive leveling systems like WoW, but how about awards for number of sims visited?
Sunchaser: Kind of like meta-cred? :)
Hamlet_Au: EXACTAMUNDO!
Sunchaser: hehe
Sunchaser: ok let's get Relay's question:
Sunchaser: What's the best game you ever played and why?
Sunchaser: Computer game, that is
Sunchaser: Tough question...
Sunchaser: oops, or bad internet access again
Sunchaser: So Relay had asked about what the best computer game is that you've ever played and why
Hamlet_Au: Anyway, I was saying an acheivement system would be great for SL as long as it was server-driven.
Hamlet_Au: Good question Relay...
Hamlet_Au: I have so many...
Hamlet_Au: Most recently would be BioShock, just the best combination of immersive gameplay and storytelling, kickass.
Hamlet_Au: Before that the Thief games got me into writing about games in the first place.
Sunchaser: Wow - that was a while ago!
Hamlet_Au: Funny thing is now that I write about games full time I have less time to play them except more casual stuff for the DS and more increasingly the iPhone.
Hamlet_Au: And the Wii.
Sunchaser: golf?
Sunchaser: or yoga?
Hamlet_Au: Rock Band is awesome in many ways too!
Hamlet_Au: Yeah we have Wii Fit, that's fun.
Sunchaser: yes!
Hamlet_Au: Jen's better at the yoga stuff. :)
Sunchaser: let's move to the future...
Roland: what about the future of vw? browser based or not? and will they ever go mainstream?
Hamlet_Au: Rock Band is seriously transcendant, I went to a Harmonix party in SF and it was as fun and exciting as a real concert!
Hamlet_Au: Future of virtual worlds, good question... hi Roland, thanks for coming!
Hamlet_Au: I used to think web was the future but now I'm not so sure.
Hamlet_Au: Free Realms has nearly 5 million downloads in like two months, and that's a standalone client.
Hamlet_Au: The biggest MMO, Maple Story, is also download.
Sunchaser: and there's the high end like Blue Mars which has people excited despite the requirements
Hamlet_Au: HOWEVER, I do think at the very least the future of virtual worlds is tight integration with the web.
Sunchaser: what do you think that will look like?
Hamlet_Au: That's one reason why Free Realms grows so fast, I think, you log INTO the web page and go to your FR social network and only then does the client launch.
Hamlet_Au: Blue Mars?
Hamlet_Au: Funny I was just there during my last visit home in Hawaii last month.
Hamlet_Au: (Blue Mars is developed in Honolulu.)
Sunchaser: speaking of downloads and not web...
Hamlet_Au: Yeah, Blue Mars download is ONE GIG!
Sunchaser: Henk Rogers
Hamlet_Au: Yeah. I know Kaz and their biz guy Jim Sink.
Hamlet_Au: They actually have a lot of good ideas and they're watching what SL did, so I think they're definitely worth watching.
Hamlet_Au: They have a developer registration system which I think will combat 90% of the content theft controversies SL has to deal with all the time.
Sunchaser: Reallly? That's interesting.
Hamlet_Au: But yeah you have to have a super kickasss broadband and a very powerful 3D card to get that sucker running.
Sunchaser: Is that something people would want to see in Metaplace I wonder?
Hamlet_Au: I think eventually, sure. We keep seeing cool 3D plug-ins for browsers so Metaplace and other web worlds can get richer and richer and 3D.
Sunchaser: Do you think 3D is the inevitable end point?
Hamlet_Au: Actually no, I'm not sure 3D is inevitable.
Sunchaser: Are there any advantages to staying in 2.5D?
Hamlet_Au: There's a Georgia Tech study suggesting that girls prefer 2D way way more than 3D. And you can't have a big virtual world without women.
Sunchaser: of course not!!
Hamlet_Au: At the same time, 3D is very powerful in all kinds of ways.
Sunchaser: So James, how about if we wrap up with you telling us a bit about what you're currently working on.
Sunchaser: Then if you have time, I'm sure the audience would love to open up moderation and talk with you for a few minutes.
Hamlet_Au: I think the best compromise is a constrained 3D experience ala Sims 2 etc. where it's 3D but the camera is not making you go first person or over the shoulder, which seems to make a lot of people nauseous and confused.
Hamlet_Au: So right now I'm getting ready for SLCC and hope to see some or most of you there, it should be a lot of fun. THERE WILL BE A LUAU!
Sunchaser: Your back yard?
Hamlet_Au: I'm also working on an art project in SL with a very famous artist which I'll announce soon, that's very exciting.
Sunchaser: I'm guessing she's Chinese....
Hamlet_Au: Heh, the luau is at Yerba Buena, I'm sure you can hook up an invite.
Hamlet_Au: You could be right!
Hamlet_Au: I have an afterword to my book ready but I'm waiting for my publisher HarperCollins to approve the paperback edition, they had to do some major cutbacks so that might be awhile.
Sunchaser: Anything outside of SL?
Sunchaser: Interesting stories coming up for GigaOm?
Hamlet_Au: I'll probably do more big game analysis stuff for GigaOM pro, our new subscription feature. Probably something about the iPhone and how to make it a superpowerful game platform.
Hamlet_Au: I want to do a rant against Nintendo they're really irking my gherkin.
Hamlet_Au: I mean not right now, but for GigaOM. :)
Sunchaser: Want to turn off moderation and tell us about it?
Hamlet_Au: Sure!
Sunchaser: OK - before we do that let me officially thank you for coming
Hamlet_Au: Hmm I thought I turned it off but the world tells me I can't.
Sunchaser: It's been fun to talk with you again...
Sunchaser: Cuppycake will take care of it.
Hamlet_Au: Thanks for having me Sunchaser!
Hamlet_Au: I'm so glad to see you in Metaplace, that strongly suggests they know what they're doing up in here. :)
Relay: Been great - lots of thought provoking stuff
Sunchaser: ok all, moderation is off.
Sunchaser: why thak you!!
Roland claps
Sunchaser: *thank
Hamlet_Au: We have no moderation!
j9scarborough: claps
malburns: woot
Hamlet_Au: Thanks for coming!
malburns: applauds
Twig: great interview!
Diogenes: thanks
Pixeleen: Hamlet - that was super cool